Defined Terms and Documents

House of Representatives Standing Committee on Economics - Review of Australia's Four Major Banks

QUESTIONS TO AND COMMENTS FROM THE FOUR CEO'S

Commonwealth Bank CEO - Ian Narev

Commonwealth Bank boss Ian Narev has defended the bank’s exorbitant credit card interest rates, insisting it’s high-risk debt, AAP writes.

Mr Narev was grilled today over credit card rates.

He was asked why the cash advance rate on the bank’s low rate card was more than 21 per cent, when the official cash rate is just 1.5 per cent. “To me, that’s gouging, that’s excessive,” coalition backbencher Scott Buchholz said.

“It is a highly profitable part of the business, how is that fair?”

Mr Narev said he understood the concerns but argued the bank did not encourage its customers to take on high amounts of high-risk debt.

The bank was balancing the needs of customers and shareholders when it made decisions on rates, he said.

He conceded there were some products “which could probably be a bit more cheap”.

“I don’t think there’s any product under which I could sit here in good conscience and tell you we’ve made the absolute perfect balancing decision,” he said.

“What we can’t do or shouldn’t do as a bank ... is cut rates significantly only then to have to jack them up very significantly when as is always the case in economic cycles, things go a different way,” he said.

Mr Buchholz asked Mr Narev whether he’d consider lowering credit card rates, given he told the committee he was willing to listen to suggestions. Two or three per cent would be a good start, he said.

“I said we came in here with a spirit of openness and listen to suggestions and we will,” Mr Narev replied.

 

Westpac CEO - Brian Hartzer's

The LNP's Scott Buchholz commenced by asking how much revenue Westpac's credit card business generates.

"Where would you allocate the profit to?" he asked.

"We don't have a credit card business," Mr Hartzer responded, noting credit cards fell within multiple business units.

After a brief circular exchange Committee Chair David Coleman intervened by asking Mr Hartzer to confirm he wasn't answering the question.

"What I'm saying is that we're not able to answer that question because we don't have a credit card business per se," Mr Hartzer said.

David Coleman noted the Committee might be in-touch about this issue.

NAB CEO  - Andrew Thorburn

NAB are not shifting on changes to their credit cards, saying the business is 'under pressure'.

They said the card business could "sustain significantly lower profitability and even a loss in some areas".

After ANZ said some credit card interest rates were too high, Liberal Scott Buchholz has asked about whether NAB have an appetite for lowering their rates.

Thorburn said the credit card business has some of the 'highest losses in our portfolio' and one third of their customers were on a 13.99 per cent 'low rate' card. 

Buchholz said the rate was 21.74 per cent on the same card rate for cash advances. NAB say again it is not the most profitable part of their business. 

So, so far NAB have not suggested they are keen to lower card rates. 

ANZ CEO - Shane Elliot

How profitable are credit cards?

Labor’s Matt Keogh is curious about the profitability of credit cards. “I’m not sure that we disclose that, but I’ll give you a rough idea. It would be, after tax, a couple of hundred million dollars,” Elliott says, acknowledging it is a large amount of money albeit a small share of the banks’ overall earnings.

Elliott says the bank is currently looking at changing the parameters for credit cards to ensure people can avoid financial hardship. “It’s the right thing for us as well ... It’s not in our interest to have customers with products they can’t service,” he says.

Deputy CEO Graham Hodges says the bank’s “hardship teams” are very effective at managing people who express concerns about servicing their debt. Over the last year, they’ve started looking at “pre-hardship” characteristics to approach clients whom they suspect might be at risk.

“Some people actually welcome that approach from the bank. Other people are indignant that we’ve approach them,” Hodge says.

Credit card costs examined

Elliot has given Liberal MP Scott Buchholz an illustrative breakdown of costs in the credit cards business.

If the credit card section were a stand-alone business, he says, -

*        25 per cent of the cost would be the cost of funds.

*        another quarter would be features - insurance, reward points etc 

*        while about a third are the administrative systems needed.

*        the balance, slightly less than 20 per cent, is lost through bad debts and fraud.

“It’s not the largest in size, so it’s a relatively small part of the bank if you will, but ... the return on equity is higher on average,” he says.

He expects greater advances in technology will allow better targeting of credit card interest rates based on the risk of the customer.  What about Card Limits, and Minimum Repayment each month?

Elliott says the average rate paid by ANZ customers on credit cards is about 11.5 per cent, given interest-free periods and other concessions offered to customers as lures to sign up.

Hodges says about two-thirds of the people who have high-rate cards don’t pay any interest. “Why they are attracted are the free insurance, Flybuys points, all the perks,” he says.

Elliott says he wants the ANZ should look at the way it advertises credit cards.

Given so few people actually pay the full interest rate, the higher advertised rate is “probably doing us more damage than good in the way it looks”, he says.

 

AFR reported ANZ CEO responses - Oct 6 2016 at 1:59 AM 

ANZ Banking Group will consider cutting interest rates on its credit cards and introducing a pricing regime based on borrower risk, after members of the committee quizzing bank CEOs this week suggested banks are making excessive returns from the product. 

During a three-hour hearing in Parliament House on Wednesday, Liberal MP Scott Buchholz said there was "ample capacity" for rates on credit cards to be lower to defray the feeling among ordinary people that they are being straight-out gouged. 

"As a general proposition I think you're right," ANZ chief executive Shayne Elliott replied.

He also said ANZ would look to harness big data to discover low-risk customers that could be offered lower interest rates.

"The way [credit cards] have developed over time is largely one-size-fits all...it doesn't really matter about your credit history - that's the product, and you chose from our menu of protects that you think is most suitable," he said. 

"I think with new technology and new risk management it is going to be easier to offer more targeted [pricing]. I think that is going to come and I think that will be part of the disruption that will come... to allow more risk based pricing in cards." 

Mr Elliott agreed to provide the committee with the bank's returns on equity for its credit cards, as well as its housing and personal loans.

Mr Elliott said the profit earned by ANZ from its credit card business is "a couple of hundred million dollars" a year, compared to the overall profit for the bank of about $7.5 billion. He said the profits from credit cards are falling. 

"There's no real growth in that business and the cost of running it, particularly the rewards and sometimes the credit cost, are going up so that's eating into the profit base," he said. 

The average rate paid by ANZ customers is 11.5 per cent but the headline rates on some cards are closer to 19 per cent. Around half of all customers retire their debt at the end of each month so do not pay any interest.

"I think there's opportunity for us frankly to take a bit of leadership on this and to something better, not just around internet rates but the fee structure of the cards," he said. 

"I think that's in our customers' interest and ours. I think we can do a better job."  

 

ABC News reports Bank inquiry: Credit card profits well above bank average, admits ANZ

ANZ has admitted that credit card profitability is "well above" most of its other businesses, but committed to looking at lower rates and more robust credit limit assessments.

Under intense questioning from Labor MPs Pat Conroy and Matt Keogh, and Liberal MP Scott Buchholz, ANZ's chief executive Shayne Elliott admitted profits from its credit card business were "well above" the bank-wide return on equity of around 12 per cent.

"Returns on the cards business are higher than average, that is undoubtedly true," he said.

"It's not the highest, but it's one of the higher ones."

However, Mr Elliott added that the bank has seen a decline in the return from credit cards.

Mr Elliott said the apparent contradiction of credit card profits declining while interest rates have remained stubbornly high is due to an increase in the cost of reward programs.

He also said many of the bank's customers never pay any interest on their credit card accounts.

"About half of people who have cards don't run any debt, they just use it for transactional capability and, if anything, you'd say that's on the rise," he said.

His deputy chief executive Graham Hodges added that the proportion of people with interest-bearing card debt on higher rate credit cards is even lower.

"About two-thirds of the people who take those high rate cards don't pay any interest on those in any month, and some do pay some occasionally, and there's virtually none who would hold debt on those cards," he said.

Credit card rate and fee cut 'an opportunity to take leadership'

Although the ANZ boss did indicate "an appetite" to consider reducing credit card costs.

"I think there's an opportunity for us, frankly, to take a bit of leadership on this and do something better around, not just the interest rate, but also the fee structure on cards," Mr Elliott told the committee.

Mr Hodges said ANZ went through its data over the past year to identify customers who might be using an inappropriate type of credit card, finding about 1 per cent of its customers fell into this group.

He said about 17 per cent of that group were "in pre-hardship, heading to hardship".

"Then we had conversations with those customers to say, 'wouldn't you be better off in this product or this product?'," Mr Hodges explained.

Earlier in the hearing, ANZ had revealed about 0.3 per cent of its credit card customers had sought hardship provisions from the bank, such as repayment holidays or reduced interest rates.The bank said around 90 per cent of those people got into financial hardship due to various life events - such as illness, unemployment or relationship breakdown - after their card was issued.

That led Labor MP Matt Keogh to enquire about the other 10 per cent and whether they should have been issued the credit card in the first place.

"It would appear that, of those people that are coming to you with hardship, nine-in-10 you're saying something happened after they were issued the card that was outside of our control, and one-in-10 of them seem to have had something that was already a problem at the time that the card was issued," Mr Keogh said.

Mr Elliott took that question on notice, but acknowledged that ANZ needed to do a better job when assessing credit limits to ensure they were affordable for the customer.

"I'd have to check whether we are currently changing the parameters, it's something we are looking at," he responded.

"It's the right thing to do for us as well ... it's not in our interest to have customers in products that they can't service."

 

The Australian - 6 Oct 2016

Commonwealth Bank of Australia chief executive Ian Narev has resisted providing returns across products, claiming these are commercially sensitive for competitive reasons.