Ban The Bunch?
February 17, 2010
Wade Wallace



       One of the many massive bunch rides down Beach Road

As a cyclist I love joining in some of the typical bunch rides you see taking place early in the morning in most cities in Australia. These bunch rides range from being well behaved and manageable to being absolutely insane.

What do I love about these bunch rides? Just like any sport, it's exhilarating to get together with your mates and to go for a good hit-out.

The cycling culture we have in Australia is phenomenal.  These bunch rides add to this culture and make it an accessible and social sport.  However, the explosion in popularity of cycling in Australia doesn't come without it's problems.

I can see why some of these bunch rides have become a contentious issue.  They're a large part of what gives cycling a bad name.  Rightly so.  There are sometimes up to 150 riders taking up 2-3 lanes of traffic riding at speeds up to 55km/hr.  As a driver, having passed some of these group rides I can see how other motorists could be either terrified or outraged.

The majority of bunch rides are well behaved, below 20 people and ridden two abreast using half a lane.  However, when the bunches increase to unmanageable numbers and leadership is lacking, things get out of hand.  All it takes is one or two riders at a time taking unnecessary chances or making erratic moves and you have constant mayhem on the road.

Unfortunately there's not much that can be done.  Bunch riding can't be banned on the roads.  Not with cycling as popular as it is.  Perhaps banning bunches of over 20 is the answer.   How can this be policed effectively?   It can't.   Small bunches catch on or pass each other and it's impossible to tell who is with whom.  How about registration for cyclists to make them more accountable?   Sorry, that won't change a thing.   It's highly impractical and doesn't work for hoon drivers so why would it work for hoon cyclists?   Perhaps crushing hoon's bikes is the answer.

I think everyone who takes part in these rides would agree that they can get out of control and dangerous.  We're not doing ourselves any favours when we want laws passed such as a clearway down Beach Road in Melbourne (which Bayside Counsel in still investigating after last night's meeting).  However, these rides will keep happening every single day so all we can do is keep trying to promote better behavior by example.  It's a problem without a clear solution.

Ban The Bunch? #2

Last night the Bayside Counsel held a meeting to vote about banning parking along the rest of Beach Road on weekends.  The only news I’ve been able to find is that more information is needed before a decision can be made. UPDATE: Bayside Council rejects Beach Road parking ban.

At any rate, I wrote something for Fairfax (The Age, SMH, Brisbane Times and WAtoday) this morning hoping to spark some discussion on the problems of the big bunch rides that exists.  I can only give an informed perspective on the Melbourne bunch rides but I suspect that the same problem exists to some extent in the rest of Australia.

I’ve seen how some of the bunch rides in Melbourne have grown over the past few years.  If you think the Hell Ride is bad you should see the 6:30 Tuesday evening Beach Road ride and the Thursday evening Tour of Suburbs.  Sure they’re fun to ride in, but we’re our own worst enemy riding these like we do.  The bunch sprints take up 2 lanes and there are cyclists scattered everywhere amongst traffic.   Every time I do one of these rides I shake my head at some of the bonehead moves that people pull (myself included).  The amount of testosterone that flows when you get 50-100 guys together is unbelievable.  I’m just waiting for the day that someone gets killed.   I’m afraid that’s what is going to happen before people wise up.

Showing 74 comments

  •  
    Totally agree CT.
    Australia is fortunate enough to have plenty of organised racing all year round, during the week AND on weekends. Especially in Victoria.
    There is absolutely no excuse for numpties sprinting, pretending to be PRO and endangering other riders, when you can compete to your heart's content in REAL races.
    GFCdomestique 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Couldn't have said it better!!!!
     
  • Mr Bailey 3 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    Spot on. I've never been in a crit that is as dangerous as most bunch rides.

    Same can be said for Round the Bay in a Day. Its our biggest day to show off how responsible we are on the roads and motorists give us the bike lane and the left lane and yet you see bunches spewing over into the right lane. In my opinion Bike Vic do a good job of getting "more people cycling more often" but do little to get them to do it safely. But that's a whole different story.

    lapsed Collapse Expand
     

    I find Amy's ride to be similar - which is a shame considering that it is supposed to promote rider safety and relationships with cars.

     
    Same as the AGF ride around the Bellarine.  Shocking. Absolutely shocking. Counter productive.
     
    Canberra clown 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    The key is individual responsibility - earlier blog subjects such as on the patron of the peleton have emphasised this over and over. I have seen this work well in Adelaide, Canberra and Sydney. And equally I have seen it not work at all in the same cities - sometimes with the same people!.
    Perhaps a better (or at least more widely notified and used) informal register of bunches - including a nominated "responsible person", avg speed and ride duration indicators (for example I would be happy - and safe - in a bunch plodding along at avg of 35 km h for 3 - 4 hours but would be out of my depth at faster averages).
    Perhaps simply better communication, and enforcement, of bunch ride rules - Adelaide's Saturday morning COBWEBS seems to achieve this without ticking off too many riders.
    I learned many of the rules/expectations the hard way - making mistakes (thankfully none involving collisions) and find it frustrating that many don't seem to know etiquete such as slowing / stopping for intersections/lights, hand signals, or what to do when a bunch splits at lights (different bunches take differnet approaches - everyone knowing what is going to happen is what makes a good - and thus safe - bunch).
    Have bunch 10 commandments ever been written? Does anyone have a link? Do the AGF or any of the bike associations (BV, Bike SA, Pedal Power etc) or bike clubs have anything suitable?
    off_the_pace 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Chris White From Randwick Botany Cycling Club has written up a Do's and Don't's listing that is regularly linked to by most Sydney clubs.

    I read it and was a great help in taking first steps into bunch riding around Eastern Suburbs of Sydney.

     
  • How about a loud BOO for anyone stupid enough to run a red light.

    Or a simple "SHARE THE ROAD, MATE" to anyone not doing so safely.

    Too many idiots pretending they're in the pro peloton. Chumps.
     

    Nick 6 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    Have you ever tried to politely inform someone that they're all over the road or riding in some way that is dangerous to them and those around them?

    I have, and was looked at like I had 3 heads! Was then promptly told to "rack off".

    So where do you go when those who are part of the issue can't even see there's a problem?

     

    Cycling Maven 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Fair call nick. I've had the same thing... but I hate to admit, I've done some silly things too. It's blogs like this, continuously raising awareness and gradually improving attitudes that will help.

    This topic should be discussed weekly as a reminder.

     

    facebook-709011092 4 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    It doesn't actually matter if the response is "eff off".

    You've made an important point and maybe, just maybe it'll sink in eventually.

    Especially if we all do it.
     

     
    Nick 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    That actually was the reply (was trying to keep it ladies friendly).

    Good point though about if we all do it - until you get reactions like LiL got.

    Fighting in lycra is never a good look....

     
    Jack D 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Classic Nick, if that was fighting then my two little sons must be Ultimate Fighting Champs. Did anything connect except their handbags?

    Little tip for being swarmed by bunches Lauren, etc al. I do my own calls "Rider Up!" because not many of the bunches seem to, then if you're concerned and have just cause, a little light swing of the hand/arm, not too far mind, occasionally (just enough to flick anyone if they are too close, or scare them back).

    Same tactic works for cars, if you think you're about to be sideswiped, and you know when it's coming, a big gob gets spat out next to me. If the car is too close they cop it, if more than a metre they're fine, it hits the road no harm done. Not a good bunch thing though, would lose you friends pretty quick.

    As a courier, the odd stoush between car and bike, or bike and bike, was a regular thing. Shouldn't be, and I remember the best bike couriers hardly ever got in a tangle. As a Dad with a decent job and some reason not to be road pizza, it is a never thing for me. Ride defensively, just like the old man always talked about driving defensively too.

    My bunch never numbers more than about 30, is on Beach Road at least three times a week but happily lets the North Road, Kingsmen or whoever is faster go through, no desperate hang-ons and chases from us. We rotate properly, maintain etiquette, and safety is a priority above speed (it's only ever low 40's coming back anyway). The flogs who invariably try to suck wheels or half wheel, chop in, etc. (and it's usually the same frothing mouth commuter fckstick from about Brighton, mind) get a decent serve. We have a couple in the bunch whose sole purpose in life is to happily give these guys the type of 'bake' Sir Alex Fergusson would be proud of. Those who ask to join, or just show courtesy, etiquette, and share turns, get a decent thank you from more than a couple of riders.

    Anyone who crows about "smashing it in the Hell Ride" gets a quick check then invariably chalked down as a flog, guaranteed.

     
     
  • lucasy 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    It was only last night that I told some bloke 3 times to not go through a red light. I also go told to F OFF.
    Yet at the bottom of flemington road in peak time he was missed by a truck by a matter of 2 meters.
    Like facebook-709011092 says;
    'You've made an important point and maybe, just maybe it'll sink in eventually'.
     
     
  • Marc G 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    Tuesday 6:30 - when CCCC run such a great event at Sandown at this time, why are people wanting to race along beach road in traffic - this one i dont understand??
     
    livinginlondon 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    I avoid the big bunch rides for the reasons CT alluded to. They are great fun but although I am heavily insured I will still be of more use to my wife and kids alive. I love cycling but it's my hobby, not my job (alas). It may sound alarmist but I agree with CT - I hope that I'm dead wrong bit I fear only a matter of time before the first death, although who knows how many previous deaths have resulted from driver attitudes to cyclists formed through bunch ride mentality.

    Look at it this way: if pros crash regularly on closed roads, what hope does it give amateurs on open roads?

    I also cringe at the reputation wild bunch rides, car swarming and red light runners give ato ll cyclists in the eyes of drivers and that's bad for everyone's safety. But like Nick said, try to suggest to someone in a friendly and polite way that they perhaps shouldn't run a red light (which really seems to get the drivers going) and you normally get told where to go in no uncertain terms. Twice I've had to get away from riders wanting to get off our bikes and sort it out like "men" so I'm reluctant to do it, although still do sometimes.

    We are our own worst enemy. If we showed the cars and road rules respect, it would come back from drivers, I have no doubt at all. However, testosterone will most likley see ot it that beahiviour will change too much and the bunches are only going to get bigger.

     

    Priestie, NEO-PRO! 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    I'm with you LiL, I don't ride big bunches avoiding them when I can, don't get me wrong do like 'em, but can get too dangerous ... cars, testosterone, experience, surges, not following wheels, nwheel rubs, egos, newbies, heroes, no etiquette ... a recipe for disaster just ain't worth it. In fact prefer to train solo (or ride with a small bunch), ... gives ability to focus on individual needs like cadence, head/cross/tailwinds, power, pedal stroke, tempo, etc, etc. ... although you can't beat a bunch for speed and to test your abilities.

    Besides, there's too much bike traffic & levels of experience particularly along Beach Road these days.

    And, I don't bounce quite as well these days.

    Leave your thoughts on the article, who knows a councillor may read them - http://bayside-leader.whereili...

    Power in numbers, is a petition for cyclists an idea?

     

    Justin Morris 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Yup - can vouch for Tour de Burbs being bad. It was my closest local bunch but I rarely rode it, purely cos it scared the s..t out of me...
    Ego and testosterone just always seems to take over.
     
    livinginlondon 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    PS If you look at the the link to the Bayside decision they always throw cyclist behaviour back at us. But we give them the ammunition! That's why I call red light runners etc but do I just give up?

     

  •  
    DDD 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    For all the comments and support for the proposal (on this site and a couple of others I have had a look at), how many cyclists actually went to the Council meeting? Spoke to the proposal? Wrote to their councillor or to the local paper? Not too many I would suggest. There were 30 speakers last night, with approx between a thrid (10 only) to half (15 tops) of them supporting the parking ban. The bulk of those opposing are Beach Road residents who don't like cyclists for many reasons - waking them up, damaging their cars, making getting out of the driveway difficult, loud bad langauge or simply because you are having fun and they are not. These people will never change their minds - they are closed.

    Regardless the recommendation was written so the Council could appear to be doing something without actually having to implement anything. Nothing changes in the short (and I would suggest medium) term.

    Pedal cyclists are over-represented in serious injuries from traffic crashes in Australia. In 2006-07, pedal cyclists comprised 14.6% (ie about 1 in 7) of serious traffic injuries, and from 2000-01 to 2006-07, rates of serious injury among cyclists increased by 49% for males and 42% for females, a time during which serious injury rates for most other road user groups declined or remained steady.

    1 in 7 is way above the ratio of bikes to cars on the roads! It's time to improve road safety for all road users.

    So what can we do? Ride safe, continue to call the bad behaviours, show respect to other riders and road users and take the time to let the Council, the State Govt and the papers that you do deserve being made safer on the road. The parking ban is only one step.

    Jaemes 3 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    Having done the Tuesday 6:30 ride a fair bit, I to agree it's now totally out of hand and dangerous. I think the problem with these rides is that they hit a critical mass of riders and the group becomes too large to be a controlled "training ride". There is no leader of the bunch, no 'patron of the peloton'. That leads to people riding 5 abreast, spilling into 2 lanes, overtaking on the wrong side of the road, and it also means the bunch is so long that while the front of the group easily makes it through the lights, the back are tempted to run the red.

    I think one way to improve behaviour and the image of bunch riding on Beach Road is to split the ride into two groups and reduce the pack numbers. Question is, as individuals, how do we do that? Well, I think it starts with a group of individuals making a decision to do it, in particular those that have the public's attention. A quick Google search of "Melbourne bunch rides" shows various bike shops, ride finders, cycling-tips and a number of cycling clubs all listing the Tuesday night 6:30 ride. While representing a large number people, it is a small number of individuals who control whether this ride is listed as one ride at 6:30 or perhaps two rides, one slower ride at 6:00 and a faster one at 6:30.

    So, in the interests of everyone's continuing enjoyment of cycling, I propose an experiment. I propose that those bike shops, ride finders, cyclingtips and cycling clubs agree to update their webpages to list two rides on Tuesday night, one slower ride ( say <40km/hr) at 6:00 and a faster one at 6:30 (>40km/hr). I also propse they rally their friends to seed these rides for 1 month with riders committed to maintaining the basic principles of the ride, namely the self imposed speed limit and the principles of good bunch ride etiquette.

    Are you willing to take up the challenge CT?

     
    cyclingTips 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    I'm willing to post a couple options in the "melbourne rides" section of the blog, but I don't frequent this ride since I race at Sandown most Tuesday evenings.

     

    Jaemes 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    OK great CT, that's how we get the ball rolling! I'll try to email around a couple more place and see if I can get them to do the same. If anyone else would like to help out, email me at safebunchrides@gmail.com
    Will 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Imagine if all of those riders were individuals in cars, then it is just caused congestion and no one talks about banning that.

    Groups are fun, generally if you are a hubbarb or you are out of your league, you soon fall off the back.

    Great to see the big groups rolling around, it is a wake up call to show how many people are cyclists.

    Looking at that photo - while certainly more than two a breast, there is a clear car overtaking lane. The riders are in the bike lane and the middle lane, with the lane on the left for parked cars.

    Perhaps cyclists should park their bikes on the road? After all no one complains when car drivers do.

    fabio 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    CT, after speaking to a friend who is a Bicycle Victoria employee (present at the Bayside meeting), he indicates that it ended in a "4-3 positive vote, but with such along list of 'conditions', many of which are either immeasurable or unnecessary, which (as Bayside have decided to do) can be interpreted whichever way one likes". Thus, it appears that there is either confusion, misreporting, or sophistry in motion regarding the ban on parking.

     

    Neil_Robinson 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    in line with Jaemes post, I've been pleased to note that Tuesday and Thursday Tour of the Burbs have had multiple bunches.

    They're roughly split by 15 minutes 6:30, 6:45, 7:00, but basically go when the people decide it's time.

     

    Ritch 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    The big, fast bunches are fine if you're at the front - you're getting a solid workout and it doesn't really matter how many are behind you. If you're in the middle or near the back, the odds are you're not strong enough to ride at the front of that bunch and should consider dropping off with a smaller group of similar paced riders. The benefits of doing so include getting a better workout, reducing numbers in the bunch and increasing safety.

    I found that it worked for me in getting better in the crits.

  •  

    lauren 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand

    As someone who was swarmed and nearly pushed into a parked car by an ill-disciplined bunch, I'm all for better controlled, smaller bunches.

    Guys like this don't just swarm cars at red lights, they swarm other cyclists too. They wouldn't give me space and were pushing me closer and closer to the rapidly approaching parked car. In the end, I simply picked a line and stuck to it which meant I forced a bunch of them out into the other lane as they were riding three and four abreast. It was scary for me. Groups like that are really intimidating for the solo rider so I never say anything at all. I dunno... maybe that's just me being a whimpy girl.

    If they have no respect for other cyclists, I can't imagine they have any respect for anyone else on the road.

     
    kylieonwheels, bikes, music, food, friends; any order is fine 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    If people are riding that dangerously, they really don't have respect for themselves either.
     
    OZShark 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Just like you have car hoons, you will always have bike hoons. Every single morning I lose count of the number of cyclists that ignore all the red lights from the start of St Kilda up to Swanston St. NO point to say anything because once I was told to be a "bike nerd". I can't wait to see one of them get knocked by a vehicle, then I will have a few words for him/her before he/she frees the air space.

     

    Jarrod 3 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    How about some kind of charter that A Grade/Elite riders sign up to that says they will behave responsibly on the open roads and act as role models for lower grades/weekend riders/commuters?

    That way they can lead by example and can prove to the general public that the cycling community is trying to clean up it's own backyard.

    For those who haven't heard of Bike Pure, it's an idea that was started by a lone voice in the UK who wanted to clean up the sport he loved. Now a lot of Pro Tour riders & World Champions across various disciplines of cycling have signed up to promote cycling as a clean sport. The riders aren't paid, they simply receive a blue wrist band & spacer and act as ambassadors for clean cycling.

    I'm sure if Pro Tour riders have the time to support something like Bike Pure, then surely riders here can find time to protect fellow riders & their own safety.

     
    kylieonwheels, bikes, music, food, friends; any order is fine 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    That's an interesting idea Jarrod. Maybe we could start a campaign to promote safe road riding? Just like the blue BikePure wrist bands or headset spacers, we could have "responsible roadie" or something like that. It's not a clear cut thing like doping, so a charter might not be necessary. But by wearing one, you're not only making a decision to ride responsibly, but also making a statement. It would sort of keep you honest!

    Anyone have any thoughts on that? Would you wear a wrist band that stated you were a responsible rider?

     
     
  • Jarrod 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Great idea kylieonwheels!

    I'm a sh1tty rider but happy to say that I'm responsible. Too slow to go running red lights, haha!

    I'm thinking red wrist bands could be a start. I know the wristband has been done to death a bit but they have sort of become the face of public movements. Red stands out and is also a reminder of what can happen if the unthinkable happens....

    I would be keen to get something started, if you or anyone else is up for it email me on jarrod@jxpphotography.com.au and we'll have a chat.

     
     
  • Me 4 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    Saw the Hell Ride last Saturday morning around Mentone. 8 wide, swarming around parked cars forcing other groups to stop for parked cars and all the local teams jerseys were present, blue, green, pink, white, brown. If they will not change their ways then who will?
    Maybe WW needs to try and get O2 to boycott these rides?

     

     
     
  • cyclingTips 3 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    I'm sorry but the only person I can be responsible for is myself. The rest of the O2 guys are very talented and experience riders and can decide for themselves what their role will be in these rides. I've tried but unfortunately can't go around enforcing my rules and values on other people. That said, if I see one of them pulling a stupid move on a bunch ride I'll pull them aside later and have a word.
     
     
  • bigrouleur 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    I guess the issue is the the new riders of today are the former golfers of yesterday. There appears to be a element of behaviour that stems from the footy club or 19th hole mentality that is pure bogan!
    They have not come through the ranks of being a junior and learning the ropes of racing and bunch etiquette. Some current riders have been drawn to riding beach road as it is the in thing and buying a high performance bike is easier and cheaper than a high performance car, plus you get fit and loose the office flab.
    For me I give beach road, the hell ride, tour de burbs a miss, you just get flak from car drivers, bad riding by hubbards who all think they are the next superstar of euro racing!
    I agree with CT, every individual needs to police themselves and respect other road users.
     
     
  • TheDJ 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Cop out alert!!!!!!!

    All care, no responsiblity!

    I'd heard about this and gave you the benefit of the doubt, FK why?

     
     
  • Andy 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Only thing you can do is split the bunches.

    A bunch larger than 20 (maybe 30?) is simply too large to control. Only way you can safely manage a large bunch is to close the roads and organise marshals; essentially an organised event.

    The group I ride with (an organised shop ride) recently experienced a similar issue. Group is too large and the mix of ability is too wide. The solution was to split the groups into smaller more manageable groups. This works as this is organised through the LBS and hence the "leaders" are know and can dictate how things are going to work.

    Riding in large bunches out on public roads is simply not fair to other road users. Split the bunches, reduce the "mob mentality", and give everyone a chance to have their moment (leader of the pack, winner of the sprint, KOM, etc...). The only problem i see is that these large groups in Melbourne don't really have a recognised "leader" who can force this change...

    Oh and before I get flamed...why do you think the organised events have Grades? It's to control numbers and group people with similar abilites. We should apply this same logic to our group rides...

     
     
  • mikesaif 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    I'm from the Midwest USA and were I live, we are lucky if a bunch ride has 20 riders. But we tend to do our bunch rides on the outside of town or at least ride that direction. We avoid busy roads. I have been to Brisbane and know that Australia has tons of space on the edge of major towns. Why don't you ride there?
     
     
  • Robert Merkel 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Mike, there is plenty of space outside the major cities, but if you live in the inner suburbs of Melbourne it takes a long time to get there.

    It takes me about an hour to get out of town to quiet roads by the shortest route. Fine on a weekend, but not real practical during the week.

     
     
  • Daniane 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    BAN THEM. If you want to ride fast in a large bunch pin a number to your back and race under controlled conditions with a club not on the open roads with traffic. Enough is enough.
     
     
  • RL 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    Confused as to the title Ban the Bunch when O2 are present on the Hell Ride every week? Oh well live and let live, but for me its Ban The Wheel Sucker, try riding Beach Road solo on the weekend without attracting 20 suckers behind you, regardless whether you are cruising, doing intervals, and I have had people jump on when motorpacing. At least Bunch Rides are participation rides for all.
     
     
  • Mr Bailey 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Did you not notice the "?" in the article's heading?
     
     
  • NB 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    look at the MegaBike ride in Adelaide on Saturday mornings- it's spilt into small groups with a set max speed, 2 abreast, rolling turns.

    It can be done.

     
     
  • Kank 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    Agree with the earlier comment from Rich. A big contributing factor to the problems with the large bunch rides is the number of punters hanging on for dear life and constantly trying to improve their position to avoid getting dropped off the back or god forbid they might get a red light and actually have to do some work on the front.
    I know everyone is trying to improve and we can't all start by pulling turns on the front but in the Tues & Thurs morning rides 80% of the riders never go near the front and just hang on for as long as they can and at the same time cause all sorts of problems. Up the front it's well organised turns only taking up half a lane. You might find if you got a small group of mates and actually rolled turns on your own your fitness would improve and you could rejoin the larger bunches and roll turns on the front which is the best spot to be - it's much safer and a lot more enjoyable than battling it out down the back.
    i don't expect anyone will listen but remember where most of the accidents happen in these bunches and it's not near the front.

     

     
     
  • Mr Bailey 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Nobody will listen Kank because you're missing the point. We all know its safer at the front but not everybody can be there because the bunches are getting too big. Hence why many people are saying bunches should be broken up.
     
     
  • Jaemes 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    It seems quite a few of you posting above agree with me that reducing bunch sizes will help the situation.

    If anyone is interested in assisting me in the initiative to split the 6:30pm Tuesday Beach Road ride in Melbourne (as discussed above), you can contact me at safebunchrides@gmail.com.

     
     
  • cam 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    you all need to go buy a bag of cement!!! it will never change as people just like to whinge about things they know nothing about!
     
     
  • Snowy 4 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    Bunch rides are going to be difficult to get rid of. Simply because they are fun to take part in. I cant help but feel that those who do stupid things in bunch rides are often those who dont race and therefore treat beach rd like they should treat sandown. I remember the Lake Mountain ride last year. Half of the ride i spent with a bunch of crit racers, who were in no hurry to do stupid things, rather they were just out there to enjoy the social ride for what it was. The other half of the ride i spent in and out of bunches of sportif riders who thought that the event was the best place to show of their legs. Some of their behavior was atrocious. Being chastised for not taking a turn when the guy on the front didnt know how to swing up or even flick his elbow was the last straw for me and a decided to avoid bunches all together for the day.
    From that experience, I cant help but feel that the average weekend warrior with semi decent legs will treat any opportunity as a race. That leads me to think that they need to be encouraged to go and race. Maybe Sandown is not enough and an inner city crit is needed during the week?
    How about a licensing system? I know that registration is a bad idea. After all, cyclists simply don't cause enough injuries to need to pay for the TAC, but some sort of test like the learners test might help. 30 questions on etiquette and common sense and you have your license, with no cost. Worth considering?
     
     
  • Robert Merkel 3 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    There is an inner city crit in the middle of the week - the Hawthorn Cycling Club's Wednesday night crit on the Studley Park hill.
     
     
  • Snowy 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    try fitting more than 30 people in a bunch around that course though....
     
     
  • Robert Merkel 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Simple solution - get to the front of the bunch and start pushing up the rise. That tends to shrink the bunch pretty damn quickly :)

    I agree with your point about racing 100%. It's just like motor vehicles - on-road racing should be restricted to organized club events with the appropriate permits.

     
     
  • gm 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    i have read many posts & blogs dedicated to the problems on beach road, there is no use complaining because all the problems have been brought on by the riders themselves. i have been on some organized group rides from beach road and have had no problems mainly because we ride out to mornington / flinders etc, much to hard for the pretenders that people complain about to ride, they usually drop off at frankston. i also have posted before that i believe that no serious rider would train on beach road due to the lack of training benefits (traffic lights,cars & more traffic lights). people will bemoan that they live in that area so it is convenient as other training areas are too far away, so what. my training area is 20-30k to get to and another 20-30 to get home, isn't that part of riding a bike.if you go to a kinder garden you should expect to be annoyed by immature kids, this is the environment that you keep returning to so stop complaining about it, and deal with the subsequent consequences. nothing will change until change is instigated. there are enough people here willing to voice their opinion and grievances but no-one willing to take any meaningful action, i am not saying that i have the answers to the problems voiced, but my action is to keep away and only use beach road sparingly. the hardest thing to do is actually decide to make the change the rest will take care of itself.
     
     
  • Snowy 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Here's to Kinglake and the Dandenongs. Even the weekend warriors arent pretenders. Maybe.
     
     
  • Sean Doyle 4 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    I don't see the attraction to riding Beach Road myself. Other than to maybe catch up with mates or parade around in your ridiculously overpriced carbon bling what is the attraction. Mates can be seen at the races where the bunch riding is more civilised and you get a better work out as well. I'm afraid the bunches themselves have brought this upon them which in no way condones the malicious intent of some drivers as a result.
     
     
  • Jack D 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    I'd argue that Beach Road is popular partly because it is accessible & handy.

    Thousands of people live bayside and inner city (South Melb. etc.). You can do a ride in the morning, get home & to work well before 9. Sad, but a fact.

    How do you get a ride in up the 1:20, The Wall, Kiglake, etc. and then sit on the South Eastern Freeway and still get to work before 10am?

     
     
  • pmark1bike, Over 30 years working at a Mazda and Hyundai Dealer in S.E. Melbourne. Cycling enthusiast (MAMIL) living in Bayside Melb with Wife, 3 kids and a mortgage. 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    I live in Mentone, I enjoy my week morning rides with my mates on Beach Road! I don't have a ridiculously overpriced carbon bike, have raced Sandown, but due to family commitments I don't have the time to race at the moment, or go on the long rides out in the hills that some do! But I do have a right to ride on Beach Road without cars trying to take me out! My bunch rides 2 abreast and calls to riders as we come up to pass them, stop at red lights and try to do the right thing!
     
     
  • Sean Doyle 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    All very good points and reasons. I have four kids so I understand the difficulty in finding time. I was more having a go at the guys we all know who generally are causing the problems in the bunch. My comments kind of, wrongly, included everybody.

    I only lived in Melbourne for 12 months and I must admit that I didn't like riding there much except when I got out into the hills.. But having said that I reckon the roads were in far better condition than here in Brisbane. Absolutely woeful. Fortunately we have some good choices for training.

    I hope everyone finds a happy median but I fear for most of you it will change will probably be forced upon from the powers that be. Rightly or wrongly.

     
     
  • Craigyj 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    Couldnt agree more with you GM and Snowy - We hit the Hills every Saturday morning for a real workout. You can smell the serenity out there whilst optimising the perfect 15-20 min interval up some of the prettiest climbs around Melbourne. There's no pretense up in the hills - everyone gets a workout - and the beach road heroes who get dragged along at 40 kph tucked up in a cosy bunch whilst proudly proclaiming to everyone how good they are get found out real quick when the roads go up! Vote with your handlebars - if you're tired of the beach road mentality - head to the hills!
     
     
  • some1s_lucky 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Totally agree with you Craigyj. Having been in the unfortunate circumstance of being hit by a car on the Tour de Burbs ride about this time last year I too have given up on the group ride. Don't get me wrong though, I like riding with mates and the hit out for King of the Muffin but now most of my weekdays involve laps of Kew Blvd and the weekends lead to the Dandenong's. I control my pace. I control what I am able to in regards to my safety and the safety of others and I enjoy the fact that like you said, everyone out there is getting a workout. Give me the challenge of the hills.........not the hillbillies!
     
     
  • Zia Grace, I am a children's author and married to Pat Fitzpatrick (MTB Skills Coach). I have recently fallen in love with his mistress (Riding) and frequent their favourite hangout (Cycling Tips Blog) 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Weren't roads originally created for horse and cart? I wonder if they got up tight when cars came increasingly on the scene...?

    For motorists to think they 'own' the rights to the roads shows arrogance and ignorance.

    Road use is an evolution and one should make way for the future, which is decided by the users.

    If there are more cyclists on the road, we have to make room for them. Didn't our mother's teach us how to share...?
     

     
     
  • Jason 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Is it purely Melbourne thing that the bunches don't ride two abreast? The Hell Ride equivalent Colluzi bunch in Sydney has a pretty wild sprint for about 3-4k but its two abreast for the other 95k. Not saying better or not wild at times re red lights or in the sprint.
     
     
  • some1s_lucky 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    As a result of this discussion I wonder if there will ever be an organised Cycling Tips ride in Melbourne? Where would we ride, who would be Patron of the Peloton and will we be able to get the CT kit again? But most importantly who could we make a formal donation to for the ride?
     
     
  • cyclingTips 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Hey some1s_lucky,

    I'd definitely like to have a CT bunch ride, however the date is still up in the air. I was thinking of having one a couple weeks ago out in Kinglake but the timing of it was inappropriate. However, I think this would probably be our best option. Donations can be made to the Kinglake bakery!

    I'll keep you posted. It probably won't be within the next month. I leave to Vietnam for a couple weeks of riding next Wednesday!

     
     
  • JeffyB 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    I know how you feel Wade. You'll recall our Wednesday Night Jam. I don't go to it anymore 'cause with any kind of a cross wind, people are all over the road on Airport Rd. I just don't want to be there when someone gets killed.
     
     
  • crashdummy 3 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    BikeSnob today commented on Critical Mass in NY shooting themselves in the foot and waking everyone up to a law (which the judge has now confirmed) that requires a permit for rides greater than 50 people.
    The cycling community here should take note and be carefull when you push your "rights" on others or the bunch will be banned, regardless of the conduct of those involved. I think we have it pretty good most of the time so activist behaviour or seeking to restrict the activities of others for our benefit should be cautiously approached.
     
     
  • cyclingTips 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    Good eye @crashdummy. Thanks for pointing it out.

    The link is here: http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.co...
    and here: http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes....

    Here is the gist of what BSNYC had to say:

    This is another great success for cycling for which we can thank Critical Mass. Just to review, it's always been perfectly legal to ride a bicycle in New York City. Moreover, nobody was really counting how many people were doing it at a single time. Still, a bunch of people decided for some reason that they needed to assert some rights that we already had, and thus Critical Mass was born. This in turn made the authorities question whether we should have those rights in the first place, and unfortunately the answer they came up with is that we shouldn't. So basically, Critical Mass advocated for something that was already legal and in the process made it illegal. This is almost exactly like the "Seinfeld" episode where they get a sitcom pilot offer from NBC and George manages to negotiate their fee down. Nicely done.

    Many people in Melbourne have never known any different, but we have it pretty damn good. Maybe our cycling infrastructure and laws are too good? Perhaps there is nothing forcing us to moderate our behavior. Just a thought...
     

     
     
  • Marc G 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Did Lance get a permit for his group ride prior to the TDU, complete with police escort, or was just putting it on Twitter enough for him ;)
     
     
  • Nicholas O'Donnell 2 comments collapsed Collapse Expand
    I've been involved as one of the organisers of one of the bigger bunch rides in Brisbane of a Saturday for about 5 years. We attract anywhere between 40 and 100 riders depending on the time of the year. One thing we do do is split the bunch into more manageable sizes - generally aiming to get them between 16 and 24 members each with an absolute max of 30.

    The bunches are generally grouped by ability too i.e. if you're feeling fit and want to hammer - ride with bunch 1. If you want to cruise but still have a crack at a couple of fast sprints, ride group 2. Or if you're feeling like more of a gentleman's ride - ride bunch 3 or sometimes even bunch 4. Interestingly, the average speed difference between the fastest group and the slowest is usually only 2-3 km/h.

    Every bunch is assigned a leader (one of the more experienced riders) who take responsibility for that bunch for the day's ride. They have the final word and if you don't like it you can go ride somewhere else - safety of the bunch is paramount. It is also the leader's responsibility to identify any new and/or inexperienced riders. They're pretty obvious - they're not sitting on the wheel or they're riding too far away from their partner. Usually, I'll shepherd that rider towards the back and ride with them, encouraging them to relax and model their behaviour on the riders around them (especially those wearing our bunch kit).

    Fortunately, most people get it. I can't remember the last time we had to tell someone that they weren't welcome. And most of our experienced riders are happy to share their knowledge and experience. Why? Because we were all novices once. And the better prepared and the better behaved riders are, the safer the ride. No one wants to have an accident, damage an expensive bike or miss time in the saddle all because someone was riding like a dickhead.

    One other thing we do is encourage all our riders to brush up on their bunch riding etiquette on a regular basis. There is a great collection of bunch riding tips listed here: http://bit.ly/bsKgoX that have been widely circulated around Brisbane. Even the old hands admit that it's great to refresh their memories from time-to-time.

     
     
  • Cycling Maven 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    Great bunch ride setup Nic. There should be more of it.

    Thanks for the bunch riding link too - those tips are pretty spot on.

     
     
  • Priestie, NEO-PRO! 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    So, on Saturday (20/2) ... I saw two separate accidents along Beach Rd, ... both involving cyclists and parked cars, ... both approx 100m either side of Black Rock roundabout, ... both involving ambulances... and heard of a third accident of a car reaming a stationary cyclist up the jaxie as the motorist approached the Black Rock roundabout intersection. All within the left hand lane, ... all within Bayside Councils territory.

    Now, I ask the question, would these accidents have occurred if there was a clearway?
     

     
     
  • damo 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    I used to do Tour of Suburbs ride years ago when it was known as the SBR ride..........20 to 30 riders staying in one lane, ridng side by side, waited for the straglers at the top of the hills........then I stopped riding for a couple of years.........then went back to Tour of Suburbs ride which had grown to about 70 riders and it was complete mayhem........never went back........me and my mate just go and do our own thing now..........I even stay away from beach rd these days........
     
     
  • spannerman 1 comment collapsed Collapse Expand
    I know what you mean Damo, I also used to do that ride but soon stopped as it was not like it used to be. Far too many wanna be pros that are just a danger to themselves and others.
    Lauren, I used to see this alot along Beach rd and it sounds as thou you managed it the correct way. Always hold your line, never worry too much about what is behind you, always in front.
    I live in Europe now where bunches are limited to 50 with control marshalls, but it is more often you see bunch rides from clubs, shops or small teams, where you have to be a member to ride with. This approach needs to happen in Australia, shops and clubs need to get more involved in promoting a safe controlled riding inviroment. But it sounds as thou there is either too many cowboys with too much money and not enough brains, or too many riders with just no respect for cycling and think they can do want they want on the road.
    I did used to do the NRR, but I was always near the front and you dont see much of what happens further back, seen it once or twice and that was enough. I had no interest in the Hell Ride as it had a bad image, but it sounds as though other rides are suffering from the same bad image. Soon enough I stopped the big bunch rides and just stuck to my shop rides as it was a much safer inviroment, Beach Rd was then just a recovery ride route and always later in the day when the cowboys and swarmers are all finished. I hope things change soon for the next time I come home to ride along the beach.